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Drakes - Do they need a nerf?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.22 04:04:00 - [1] CCP would not have mentioned this nerf as being on the table if it were not already decided. The POINT of this nerf, as stated, is that Drakes cause lag and a lot of people are flying them. I don't like it, but in this thread CCP has essentially said that they do not want people flying Caldari missile boats in PvP.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.22 13:35:00 - [2] Edited by: OT Smithers on 22/10/2010 13:40:56 Originally by: CCP Chronotis As stated in earlier responses which I see some of you skipped(!), we would never nerf the drake because it used missiles and missiles cause additional load, that would be nonsensical indeed as many note. Nonsense. Of course you would. In fact, that is in essense what you said. It is also one of the stated reasons for the rocket "fix." Further, it makes sense. What does not make sense is the silly suggestion that Drakes are in any way overpowered when compared to the other ships in their class -- the numbers simply do not back this up. Nor have you guys lept into action to nerf the other FOTM ships (or fix the obviously broken ones), including those that are so far out of balance that they make a mockery of the word. Clearly "BALANCE" has absolutely nothing to do with development priority. But addressing lag does. Respectfully, if you need to nerf missile ships to keep them out of large fleet PvP that's fine, but don't p*** on the backs of Caldari pilots and then try to tell them its raining.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.22 13:38:00 - [3] Originally by: Shade Millith Edited by: Shade Millith on 22/10/2010 11:40:29 No Caldari have a good ship finally for PVP, you even say yourself that one by itself isn't OP Quote: Drakes on their own are reasonably balanced Don't screw over small gang's/soloer that use drakes. Why don't you go nerf amarr? I mean Amarr BS's are the most popular for BS gangs and zealots are the ship of choice for A-HAC gangs. Edit: How about you buff raven/rokh so they can fit into BS gangs? Amaar don't fire missiles.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.23 00:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Bomberlocks I honestly don't understand the level of backwardness in some of these people. Drakes ARE currently the FOTM in medium/long range combat, being able to take on anything in sufficient numbers. Yes. However... Drakes, by the Devs own admission, objective comparisson, and observation are NOT overpowered in anything less than lag conditions. The entire BC class of ships is arguable the most balanced in the entire game. Drakes are not the FOTM in low-se or in small gangs in 0.0. They are one of three FOTM's in large fleet battles in 0.0. That's it. The devs want to end this. The PROBLEM is that Drakes are not overpowered to begin with so the only way to end its use is to break the freaking ship. Simple enough?
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.23 04:54:00 - [5] Originally by: Shade Millith I don't see CCP thinking about nerfing that That's because this has nothing to do with balance. If it did we wouldn't be discussing BCs --arguably the most balanced class of ship in the game -- at all.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.23 04:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Pinky Starstrider Its because missiles are causing Lag and the only logical way to combat that is to nerf missile using ships to deter anyone from using them, instead of you know fixing the issue of missiles causing lag. Obviously there is no easy way to do this or they wouldn't be discussing neutering the Drake.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.23 22:36:00 - [7] CCP would never have initiated this nonsense if the decision had noit already been made -- the Drake is gonna be nerfed and nerfed HARD. CCP gave the reason: they do not want missile spam in fleet PvP. For Caldari pilots, and new players considering Caldari, this means that unless they are exclusively interested in PvE they would be fools to stick with it. Sad, but there it is. Caldari is now officially the gimped PvE race, and by design.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.24 02:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Shade Millith Originally by: Cpt Tunguska Originally by: Furb Killer Lol @ comparing drake and vaga to use as whine fuel. There are counters, BCs counter cruisers. BS's counter BCs. If you want to counter drakes you should not use cruisers but battleships. And what if BCs dont counter HACs (which they do not too great btw, AB hacs will normally beat drake armies), what should be used? Super carriers? Since battleships definately are not the usual counter against AB hacs. Where can I read ccp's statement that dumb Drakes are the official counter for HACs? Imho shiny skill-intensive and expensive HACs should be better than than scrubships. As I've said before, attacking a BC in a HAC is generally a suicide charge 1v1, why would it be different in a 50v50 gang? Hell, there was a huge fleet fight last night. BS and BC's. You know what was the most common BS by far? Amarr. How about we nerf the Amarr BS's since they're so popular in BS gangs? Man, Dram's are a class above nearly all other frigates, and are the fastest possible frigate, probably could look at that. They are not nerfing the Drake for balance. They are nerfing it to remove missile spam from fleet battles.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.25 14:39:00 - [9] All these suggestions for "balancing" the drake miss the point. It's not unbalanced now. If it were you would see people selecting it for their small gang and solo play. And if, just for the sake of argument, it were SLIGHTLY better than other BC's (though clearly it is not) what of it? CCP's goal here is NOT balance. A look at the other classes of ship in the game shows that balance is not even on CCPs radar. Their goal is to eliminate lag causing missiles from fleet battles.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:03:00 - [10] Originally by: rekcuf bmuD Because every other pilot has to make sacrifices to fit for long range. The drake can keep its role of the best EHP BC in the game, but there has to be at least some drawback for fitting for long range. There are many drawbacks. An OBJECTIVE comparison requires that all attributes be considered together -- not just the one or two that benefit your position. Your statement is as flawed as saying "Every other pilot must make sacrifices for speed!" when referring to Minmatar, then using that speed alone to claim their ships OPed. The reality is this: BCs are perhaps the most balanced class in the game, and if the number of pilots flying them in low sec and solo/small gang is any indication, the Drake is not the best of this relatively balanced lot. CCP has said as much in this thread. The Drake is good at one thing only: Lag warfare.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:10:00 - [11] If the Drake was anything like the detractors are suggesting you would see them being used regularly in low-sec and small gangs. You don't because there are far better choices. The Drake is not on the chopping block because it is overpowered. The problem (as CCP said) is missile spam lagging the servers. It is this spam that CCP wants to eliminate. Sadly, the best way to do so is to break the Drake so that few will use it.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.10.28 15:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Selling Slave Yes, lets ruin the drake, an make it useless, because CCP fails...etc RAGE etc FACTS: The people at CCP are PROFESSIONAL game developers with years of experience running a successful MMO. Their opinions are backed by data and education and experience, their actions by their own paychecks. This is a big deal to CCP because it is important to a lot of players.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.01 23:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Its actually quite pathetic. Besides, Caldari is supposed to have good fleet ships, and what is wrong with Caldari having the best fleet BC? Some BC gotta be the best at that role after all, and tbh Caldari don't have many "the best" ships to speak off. Their horror is understandable... they are not used to seeing Caldari have the best or anything. THEY get the best, Caldari gets less. And once they have successfully castrated the Drake they will go back to their usual role of assuring new Caldari pilots that their ships are just fine.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.02 15:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Rhinanna I hardly think that a very minor nerf to the drake's locking range would cause the level of panic you are suggesting. Drake would still be the premium long range vessel...etc Correct. A minor change would have little impact on either the ship or the number of players using it. It would be nothing more than a concession to "imbalance" that does not exist. And in any case, it misses the point. Let me state it clearly: CCP does not want people using the Drake (or other missile boats) in fleet PvP. No minor change is likely to accomplish this.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.06 02:42:00 - [15] Assuming that the Drake gets nerfed to help eliminate missile spam (and I believe that this was settled long before anyone from CCP mentioned it in this thread) the question becomes: What then for Caldari?
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.07 01:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Captain Smugdog In terms of soverign warfare and tactics at a macro level, the caldari do not have a place either way (in the long run). What I would be concerned with as a caldari pilot is seeing meaningful reasons to bring shield and missile tech into the big picture of pvp independantly of the drake. Most of us are. Or, put another way (and as your market data suggests), there are two basic flavors of "Caldari" Pilots: 1. Those who focus on PvE 2. Those training something else
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.12 18:18:00 - [17] Edited by: OT Smithers on 12/11/2010 18:18:24 (Lifted from Ships and Modules Forum) Q3 Economics Report, now showing in the Information Portal. 1 Hurricane 29,346 2 Drake 24,012 3 Vagabond 13,296 4 Zealot 11,800 5 Sabre 10,919 6 Harbinger 10,888 7 Dramiel 8,675 8 Rifter 6,350 9 Cynabal 6,139 10 Thrasher 4,773 11 Tempest 4,468 12 Megathron 4,207 13 Rupture 4,061 14 Armageddon 4,039 15 Hound 3,962 16 Myrmidon 3,831 17 Abaddon 3,668 18 Loki 3,622 19 Manticore 3,622 20 Tengu 3,611 Looks like the Drake is off the top, while the other Caldari ships are falling off the bottom.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.12 23:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Alara IonStorm That is very vague... You do not mention what missiles he will be getting, HAM's or Heavies. That means he could have a close combat Drake or a range Drake. It takes on average only 30days to get Lasers and you get the short and ranged versions while your friend has to pick one or the other. I doubt in 12 days he has Weapons Upgrade 4, Engineering 5 and Electronics 5 to fit the ship. Nor does he have the Battlecruiser skill high enough to heavily benefit from the massive tank or the 5 anti Frig Drone with DI to make them effective. In short he is getting one type of tech 2 weapon on a ship that lacks the support to be flown properly. Nonsense! If you have learned nothing from this thread, you should have at least discovered that the Drake possesses a special magical quality that bypasses even training time. It is just THAT good.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.13 02:50:00 - [19] Edited by: OT Smithers on 13/11/2010 02:50:58 As though skills and training were necessary. It's a Drake my friend. A DRAKE! Just owning one turns shivering noobs into bitter vets. I don't even think it could be nerfed -- it is that powerful. When two of them face off it's server armageddon divided by zero. Sure, more people prefer the Hurricane, but that's only because they cannot handle the power.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.11.13 13:33:00 - [20] Originally by: it440 just spoke to Leksi Bar'zuk in game, he found his drake in hanger, he must have been really drunk, lol he should have known better to think anything could have detroyed a drake... You can be passed out drunk and the Drake will STILL get you home -- then tuck you safely into your clone vat before parking itself in the garage. CCP NERF THIS IF YOU CAN!!!!

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